A Fragile Radio Interview
Caller: Yeah, I think your story about the software business is more money than race because they're just like that in business. I know,
Clovice: But you weren't there.
Caller: Well, yeah, OK, there's that.
Clovice: You don't know what you're talking about. Honestly, you don't. And I can tell you that I ran successfully several software companies, and I didn't have problems like that for most of the time. This was one experience, and I'm very happy to explain it to you, but you can go to www.anatomyofhate.weebly.com, and you can see the entire story and then you can make up your own mind.
Caller: Yeah, OK, well, with me, you may be right and I, but I am right. You're right.
Clovice: I lived it. I experienced it. And I know what I'm doing.
Radio Host: He was there and you weren't.
Caller: Yeah, well, that's true. Yeah, but it’s just, you know, I've had a lot. I've kind of dealt with the bad and and so forth and have a pattern. And I've dealt with some companies now. I'll tell you, there's just, you know, when you come to them and you're small, they're big. The first thing they think about is just stopping you.
Clovice: You know, that is absolutely true, and I'll give you that. But when you add the racist component on top...
Caller: Well, OK. Yeah, that was an easy path for them to go right?
Clovice: Yeah. Well, it was. And you know, it's really interesting because one of the things that I think is is fascinating is what you just did. I'm not criticizing you, but I think it's a natural thing to say, “Well, you might have misinterpreted this or you might have misunderstood it”. And I didn't mean to be flippant just now. But I just I do want to unpack this a little bit. Here's what happens. And it is one of the things that that is a dynamic of what we're talking about. And that is that, it is difficult for us Americans to reconcile our ideas about our democracy and our ideals, about how we live and the reality of something like racism. And actually, when you're in the middle of it and somebody is doing something to you, you understand what it is. Women understand that. I'm not saying that I walk around depressed all the time because I don't. But when you are in a situation like that and like I said, I have had many, many business experiences and sometimes people play hard ball and that's why I never go into business without a lawyer and an accountant.
Caller: OK, well, that's wise and energy, right? Right? It really is.
Clovice: Exactly. But but the idea that I misinterpreted this and didn't see it correctly…
Caller: No, I wasn't saying that, but I was just saying, I think you could have had the same problem if you were small and because, you know, they're just a monster company. Yeah, they think everybody else is stoppable.
Clovice: Yeah. But but here's the thing in that case, they did turn over my work to white companies.
Caller: Well, that's probably the only kind that we're in the business model.
Clovice: No, I'll tell you another thing. Here's the really interesting thing from that era. My company was called Technology Media Enterprises, and we did 3D modeling animation. We did multimedia. I actually created the first computer based training for pilot private pilots, and we based our computer based training on that product. It was fully developed. It wasn't something that had to be built. We actually just repurposed our software for that.
Now one of the things that was really interesting it at that time, my company was one of several companies that were owned by black entrepreneurs like myself, highly capable. We knew what we were doing and we were competing. And like, you know, I told John, you had to be 10 times better. So we knew we knew what we were doing. What would happen is I would get phone calls from companies like Lockheed saying, Can you do this engineering? And I would say, yes, certainly we can. We can do this by blah blah, whatever it is. And then the next thing would happen say, Oh no, you don't understand. We have section eight A. And what we want is a black company. We want you to. OK, so here is all right. So I'm going to educate you, dude. So what happened was what happened was I would get phone calls. They would say, We want your eight A.. We don't want you to do the work, but we want you to sign on to this and we'll pay you. And I always hung up.
Caller: Hmm. Yeah.
Radio Host: Tokenism.
Caller: Yeah, yeah. Well, you're you're a brave man. All right.
Clovice: But you weren't there.
Caller: Well, yeah, OK, there's that.
Clovice: You don't know what you're talking about. Honestly, you don't. And I can tell you that I ran successfully several software companies, and I didn't have problems like that for most of the time. This was one experience, and I'm very happy to explain it to you, but you can go to www.anatomyofhate.weebly.com, and you can see the entire story and then you can make up your own mind.
Caller: Yeah, OK, well, with me, you may be right and I, but I am right. You're right.
Clovice: I lived it. I experienced it. And I know what I'm doing.
Radio Host: He was there and you weren't.
Caller: Yeah, well, that's true. Yeah, but it’s just, you know, I've had a lot. I've kind of dealt with the bad and and so forth and have a pattern. And I've dealt with some companies now. I'll tell you, there's just, you know, when you come to them and you're small, they're big. The first thing they think about is just stopping you.
Clovice: You know, that is absolutely true, and I'll give you that. But when you add the racist component on top...
Caller: Well, OK. Yeah, that was an easy path for them to go right?
Clovice: Yeah. Well, it was. And you know, it's really interesting because one of the things that I think is is fascinating is what you just did. I'm not criticizing you, but I think it's a natural thing to say, “Well, you might have misinterpreted this or you might have misunderstood it”. And I didn't mean to be flippant just now. But I just I do want to unpack this a little bit. Here's what happens. And it is one of the things that that is a dynamic of what we're talking about. And that is that, it is difficult for us Americans to reconcile our ideas about our democracy and our ideals, about how we live and the reality of something like racism. And actually, when you're in the middle of it and somebody is doing something to you, you understand what it is. Women understand that. I'm not saying that I walk around depressed all the time because I don't. But when you are in a situation like that and like I said, I have had many, many business experiences and sometimes people play hard ball and that's why I never go into business without a lawyer and an accountant.
Caller: OK, well, that's wise and energy, right? Right? It really is.
Clovice: Exactly. But but the idea that I misinterpreted this and didn't see it correctly…
Caller: No, I wasn't saying that, but I was just saying, I think you could have had the same problem if you were small and because, you know, they're just a monster company. Yeah, they think everybody else is stoppable.
Clovice: Yeah. But but here's the thing in that case, they did turn over my work to white companies.
Caller: Well, that's probably the only kind that we're in the business model.
Clovice: No, I'll tell you another thing. Here's the really interesting thing from that era. My company was called Technology Media Enterprises, and we did 3D modeling animation. We did multimedia. I actually created the first computer based training for pilot private pilots, and we based our computer based training on that product. It was fully developed. It wasn't something that had to be built. We actually just repurposed our software for that.
Now one of the things that was really interesting it at that time, my company was one of several companies that were owned by black entrepreneurs like myself, highly capable. We knew what we were doing and we were competing. And like, you know, I told John, you had to be 10 times better. So we knew we knew what we were doing. What would happen is I would get phone calls from companies like Lockheed saying, Can you do this engineering? And I would say, yes, certainly we can. We can do this by blah blah, whatever it is. And then the next thing would happen say, Oh no, you don't understand. We have section eight A. And what we want is a black company. We want you to. OK, so here is all right. So I'm going to educate you, dude. So what happened was what happened was I would get phone calls. They would say, We want your eight A.. We don't want you to do the work, but we want you to sign on to this and we'll pay you. And I always hung up.
Caller: Hmm. Yeah.
Radio Host: Tokenism.
Caller: Yeah, yeah. Well, you're you're a brave man. All right.
